
Richard Laming
Of those two supposed facts, neither is true.
The argument that the Lisbon treaty is more far-reaching than previous treaties seems to rest on such features as the legal personality acquired by the European Union (but the European Community already had it), or the creation of the post of president of the European Council (but the European Council already had a presidency, changing hands every six months). Sometimes, the idea of a ratchet clause or some kind of self-amending feature of the treaty is floated as the reason for especial concern about the Lisbon treaty, but no such clause or feature exists.
The farthest-reaching features of the European treaties are (1) the supremacy of EU law over domestic law and (2) the introduction of Qualified Majority Voting. The first of those derives from the Treaty of Rome and the second from the Single European Act. Lisbon is less significant than either of these.
The argument about the promised referendum is slightly stronger. It is indeed true that a referendum was promised by all three parties on the previous constitutional treaty, and the explanation that the Lisbon treaty is different from the constitutional treaty, while factually correct, is a resort to the small print rather than a bold statement of principle. However, it remains the case that the Lisbon treaty passed into law because parliament voted for it. It is as legitimate as any other act of parliament; it is as legitimate as parliament itself.
In my speech in the debate, though, I went further than this. I wanted to lay out the extent of the political support for the Lisbon treaty and what it represents. In the UK, every general election since the Treaty of Rome was first signed has elected a majority of MPs in favour of membership (there have been 13 of them: 1959, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1974 twice, 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001 and 2005) and the referendum on the subject in 1975 produced a 2 to 1 majority in favour of staying in.
In Europe as a whole, the Lisbon treaty was supported by 27 national governments and the main opposition parties in 26 countries. In the European elections in June, 2/3 of the votes went to parties that supported the Lisbon treaty. If you look at the referendums that have been held, more votes have been cast in favour of the Lisbon treaty than against it (1.96 million compared with 1.46 million), and the same was true in the referendums on the constitutional treaty, too (26 million compared with 22 million).
Now, this is not to say that either the Lisbon treaty or the EU as a whole is loved. The narrowness of victory and the resort to the small print are clear proof of that. But it is to say that the claim that the Lisbon treaty lacks legitimacy or has been imposed in the teeth of popular opposition across Europe as a whole is false.
(British anti-Europeans might point to the British election results in June which showed a much more eurosceptic outcome than in the rest of the EU, and a future Conservative government would be the most eurosceptic of the 27 should David Cameron become prime minister next year. But the British picture is different from that of the rest of Europe.)
What interested me most in the debate was the reaction of the anti-European speakers to these facts. There was sheer disbelief that I might even think them relevant. But I do, because they are.
Opponents of the EU have got it into their heads that the EU is a conspiracy by the elites against the voters. Manoeuvres such as the on-again off-again referendum are proof of this, they say. The EU has the effect of being anti-democratic and is intended to be so. Why, then, would a pro-European speaker try to justify the legitimacy of the Lisbon treaty? Should they not revel in the fact that it is not? Quotes by Giscard D’Estaing are trotted out to support this view.
But readers of this blog will know, and perhaps share, its conviction that the EU is in fact advancing democracy and not undermining it. Giscard D’Estaing is not the sole representative of the pro-European idea.
I think that the problem the anti-European speakers had last night was that they were so convinced of their own point of view and their own analysis of the pro-European point of view that they could not comprehend this democratic alternative.
There are some opponents of the European Union who concede that supranational democracy is a nice idea but in practice cannot work in Europe. Last night was different, with the argument that supranational democracy was not even being tried. It is one thing to impose upon your opponents’ arguments your own interpretation of their conclusions, but it is quite another to impose upon them your own interpretation of their motives.
There are too many myths in circulation about the facts of the European Union. Let us not add to them myths about the politics of the European Union, too.

Re: < << I think that the problem the anti-European speakers had last night was that they were so convinced of their own point of view . . . >>
This is exactly YOUR problem! No one else can have a say, no one else can have a valid opinion. Any counter opinion is met with ad hominem attacks and/or subversion of the facts.
Lisbon is bad treaty and if the EUSSR carries on down this track it will lead, at worst, to a European civil war, or, at the least, to wars of independence.
Do wake up!
By all means, have a say. That's what this website is for. And I deny that Federal Union makes ad hominem attacks: if you are going to accuse us of making them, point them out to us. Otherwise, don't make such complaints.
To Paul UK: I am sure your opinions are welcome, but perhaps you could supply a few facts to back them up. Then we can have a sensible debate.
On the general front, the promised referendum issue will not go away. The debate should encompass the very nature of our "constitution". At the moment we are a parliamentary democracy with representative government. It could be argued that "the people" have never voted for this state of affairs, so is it legitimate? There is no practical answer to the problem of democracy – that two idiots can outvote a genius.
Richard Corbett writes:
"On the point about the legitimacy of Lisbon, another point worth making is the degree of support it obtained in national parliaments when they voted on its ratification (the normal way for treaties to be ratified): a total of 7295 elected national parliamentarians voted (I've not counted the unelected Lords and not counted Ireland, which had a referendum) on the treaty, 6515 in favour and 780 against (i.e. 89% to 11%). Very few major treaties have obtained that level of support."
Does anyone know what the reaction was in France and the Netherlands when they were denied a follow-up referendum? I seem to remember that the initial rejection by referendum was accepted all round as not being a vote against Europe, as such, and so the tidying up of the treaty afterwards might have been quite readily accepted. There would have been a helluva row in UK in similar circumstances.
The various means of measuring public opinion outlined in the blog and the comments show clearly enough that there is a strong support for the Lisbon Treaty across the member states. If we come to the particular problem of the UK we should have met the concerns of the anti-EU and anti-Lisbon lobby by holding the referendum promised by Blair. Not to do so is anti-democratic and demonstrates fearfulness in the fact of public opinion. This is not the way to carry public opinion with you in your chosen course. If the arguments in favour of Lisbon are strong enough as I believe they are they should be put to the democratic test in this country.
The problem with holding referendums is that they do not always answer the question of what the people want on this issue. In Holland in 2005 although al four major parties where in favour people voted again the constitution. It is widely believed that this vote was more a vote against the government itself rather than against the document. Moreover, the country had a hard time framing the discussion on the constitution. In France a similar thing was going on.
Secondly, I think that an ordinary citizens can not comprehend all the arguments for or against and that this is also a strong argument for electing someone who does take the time to go though the pro and cons to then vote for us on our behalf.
Is this not also what happend?